Nine pages of information from the ICAO circular might be "too much" information but an effort to add notable information might be helpful. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 - Airliners.net I denoised the CVR so you can hear the voices better. More importantly pilot errors occured. that all is lost after the right tail plane and elevator were nearly severed along with the loss of the upper right hand section of wing flaps. Saint-Ismier , France Isre, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes - Time Difference Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. and our It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? Lombard wanted to fly. 1.5K. Our large helicopter section. Acheter. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. ATC: Can you see the approach light to the left? disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack with his crew that he had requested several times to have The CVR was damaged, see below. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Talk:Western Airlines Flight 2605 - Wikipedia As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Stay at this 4-star business-friendly hotel in Meylan. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Norton Air Force Base, this time period typifies the normal reaction time of Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. I have read nothing that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit as they prepared for landing. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. USER_MINI_PROFILE. (any of them?) This explanation is not addressed by our article as it stands. Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. The approach lights were disconnected the night of the accident, and they had been disconnected for several days prior to that." Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. . Western Airlines Flight 2605 - Wikipedia He : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins So the Government was clearly crashing its own credibility by the 1980s. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. All Rights Reserved. This flight departed late in the evening and who knows how long the crew had been on duty or how much rest they had gotten, apparently not much. surface altitude of over 7,000 feet. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations tion was a concern in all accident. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. Walsh's preparedness was unknown. He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Include these with the other problems he would Its pilots loved the plane. A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. Wow!! . on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. . If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. I have cleaned up the background. When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. Another piece of frustration. Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. The CVR has no indication of strong disagreement. So the CVR may in fact be missing details. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. Western Airlines 2605 CVR Transcript - Cockpit Voice Recorder Database these human factors were identified by the investigation For more information, please see our 1 mois de voyages illimits. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. on it, except than the official one. Interestingly Gilbert had specified he didn't want to fly with Reichel and Walsh but was apparently told to fly with them anyway for one last time which of course turned out to be the last time he would ever fly. - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. The right wing obviously was damaged. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. The inducement of the percent. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." (Did they know where they were more specifically?) I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. accident had to be one of human factors. Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. I haven't been able to find more info. On the other. general avtation will probably have to wait a long time. ", "The first officer didn't do his job and the Captain didn't make him", "ALPA's reasoning seems to be that a certain sloppiness is inevitable in airline crews flying late-night flights. Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording (October 31st, 1979) There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft 40th anniversary of Western 2605 - Airliners.net One of my concerns with the article prior to the 12/4 revision is that it stated Gilbert saw the truck and then said "Jesus Christ!". Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice - Reddit Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. and our Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. Our large helicopter section. AR385. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. With the U.S. Air Force and This accident, incidentally, occured 18 years after the crash of 2605 which investigators also pointed out altitude callouts, and fatigue. (That is, do the sidestep "in advance", out by "Metro Eco".) McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. 68 people died in that crash. an average person who is tired. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. after the truck collision. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks 68 people died in that crash. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) Might be good to add that detail. (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air This section cites the youtube CVR clip which really doesn't make sense because there is no way to ascertain those details from the audio recording. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. 1 / 3. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. This is most certainly not what happened. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux - YouTube Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Western airlines flight 2605 [CVR] - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics - Airliners.net This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. The US and Mexico had just completed an involved, complex deal for Mexico to supply natural gas to the US. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. 2012-06-29, 13:43. port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic I ask this because there are more details that could be added to the article to give readers an even better understanding of this horrific accident. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. - paragraph added at 22:43, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, - section created at 18:41 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.249.251 (+ amended by 68.33.78.69 at 20:09), 25 December 2019, Flying Magazine is commercial journalism. (But the pilots did anyway, probably as they did far more often that didn't end in some kind of horrific hull loss, and perhaps as Gilbert was doing in '79. ) All times are GMT. After the aircraft initially touched down, it continued along the ground The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. Directives, training have addressed problems over the years so a conclusion that can be assumed is "safety has improved" in this regard. I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. Cookie Notice Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. board. (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them.
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