[Fix It Easily], Ball Valve Handle Broke Off [Step By Step Solutions]. Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. What You Should Know Before Shutting off the Water But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. I was under impression that with the recirculation pump this wouldnt be an issue (the wait time) and the fact that the water is just warm otherwise feels wrong. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Those are quite significant savings. It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. Therefore, I can't drain the system. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. NPE-A2 Series | Navien It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . . Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. A water recirculating pump is also similar to this. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. NaviCirc Recirculation Valve | Navien As a result, the stuff will rub against the wall of the pump and produce a hum like a refrigerator when you turn the unit on. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. Side question: are you able to explain to me what always on means? The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. If your pump does this, then it is to be expected, otherwise it sounds like the hot and cold are mixing at some point and you'd need to find out where . Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. air). Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. It worked perfectly. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Cookie Notice It looks like you're using an ad blocker. What effect does this have on gas usage for instant hot water? Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. Hi: Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. This is known as recirculating home pump comfort system (Type #2) and its the most popular way to get hot water quickly. Is there a check valve? Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. Is this incorrectly installed? Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. Average 1-6 Person Home kWh Usage, Gas Vs Electric Water Heater Monthly Cost Comparison (State-By-State), Water Heating Costs For 1,2,3,4,5,6 Family Homes (State-By-State Analysis), Electric Water Heating Cost, kWh Usage Per Month (State-By-State RECS Analysis), What Is W2 Wire On Thermostat? Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. Is it possible to create a concave light? Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. While you may have a general understanding of the listed electrical issue above, you should not attempt to handle any electrical work unless you are a licensed electrician. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. Fits These Models For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Not sure I am understanding. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. Reinsert the filter into the plastic assembly. Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. There is some issue with the front panel key. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. This is done every time you close the faucet. Hot Water Recirculating Pump: What You Should Know - Best San Diego This is because the motherboard or control board is the units brain responsible for receiving and transmitting information in the heater. The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. There are no error codes showing. 6\" Magnetic Nut setter Sethttps://amzn.to/2JdAckuMilwaukee 48-22-6330 Tongue and Groove Pliers Sethttps://amzn.to/3kfch0RGoPro Hero 8 Black Action Camera with Accessory Bundlehttps://amzn.to/34AGamfVeto Pro Pac Tech XL Tool Baghttps://amzn.to/2U1QqPFOLIGHT Bundle H2R LED Headlamp, 2300 Lumens Rechargeable Flashlighthttps://amzn.to/370rGiqAmprobe AMP-320 Clamp Meterhttps://amzn.to/2GNxUHeFluke 117 Electricians True RMS Multimeterhttps://amzn.to/3iFZP9tMilwaukee 2364-20 M12 Roverhttps://amzn.to/2HNvitKMilwaukee Rocket light 2132-20https://amzn.to/341OTPm #MIHeatingGuy #MichiganHeatingGuy if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. We have some suggestions for you if you want to buy the best wifi sockets. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. Is a Hot Water Recirculating Pump Worth It? 10 Pros and Cons - Your H2Home IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? Sure there is likely some distance between the recirculation line and the fixture which should me some time till hot water reaches. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. However, this is only a temporary fix. It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. Hi Christopher, not really. However, the unit comes equipped with a standard 120V appliance cord and operates between 200 and 300 watts. The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Quick summary on costs: Recirculating a pump is certainly useful if you want hot water quickly. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. Also you need not be concerned about pump damage. When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. Then, turn it on again. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. For example, you will see Navien error code 003 on the display screen, which means the igniter is malfunctioning. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. How to Flush a Tankless Water Heater (Step-by-Step Procedure) So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. First, find the control panel on the front of the unit. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Navien tankless whole house HWH. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. How? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Continue with Recommended Cookies. These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. A while ago we had a plumber/friend install a Navien tankless water heater. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. You can also identify and fix them yourself. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. if you do have an external recirc line BUT it was installed when the Navien , then see if you can find where the recirc line connects to the hot water line - maybe it's serving a portion of your fixtures and the other fixtures are not benefiting from the recirculation. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. You mentioned that in the summer months your can turn off the recirculation pump. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. How is an ETF fee calculated in a trade that ends in less than a year? How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. The exhaust is overheating. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? Its clearly not always running as I can see it says standby on the display most of the time. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. Its really an easy task to do. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. Locate the reset button on the heaters front control panel. Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. Yes!!! and our I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. Brand: Navien. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. Recirculation pump | Grundfos Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. Contents show It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. For more information, please see our You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. 2. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. Will a Water-Saving Recirculation Pump Save Me Money? - Treehugger This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. You must log in or register to reply here. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Line www.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguy Milwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Light Hot Water Recirculating Loop Owen Perkins 81K views 3 years ago NAVIEN. That may present a problem in the summer when you need cold water; turning the pump off during the summer months solves the problem. FREE Returns . Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? Maintaining Your Central Heating Pump | Living by HomeServe From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. Great article!! Thanks! Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. You are using an out of date browser. Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? Check to see if the water valves are open. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. These processes are so easy that you can even install a water recirculating pump by yourself! Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. The heating supply thermistor is defective. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional?