What a waste of a ministry! I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. No. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. It is the normalization of sociopathy. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it. If any blogger made such a vague blanket statement as this theyd be called out immediately. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. This one was different. Love, All rights reserved. peaceable disposition. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. It was like my eyes were open. Im really glad that you are reaching out to GW and other exiles. probably just my opinion, and I overgeneralized. As the CEO of MHC was MD completely unaware of what was going on with the Global Fund? The singles have a lot of money to be exploited as well, but churches are stuck in a rut of trying to fleece the married folks. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. . Youre not one of us. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. (stephen the shepherd? The world has a lot higher standards and integrity than the whole xtian celebrity machine put together, and the internet helps everyone to see that. The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. He is a draw. Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. Wow! "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. I called Stephens and informed him Lindell had mentioned him in a sermon. Its just too lucrative of a franchise, you dont want to lose that. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. I am sorry if anything I wrote about Che offended you. Well-meaning people are attempting to put Jesus in structures that do not foster the expression of his life in the saints. "The mayor was not in favor of this ordinance," Lindell told his congregation. We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. What is the biblical prescription for sinning Elders? I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. At a certain level they wanted leaderless teams who would function by consensus. How can they do that? @ Abi Miah: appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. Feel sorry for him instead as a burned out shell without compassion. Where David cut the fabric from Sauls garment in the cave, showing he could have killed Saul but didnt, reflects Gods desire that David not physically harm Saul. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. I also told him that before I wrote this story, I transcribed his sermon. News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. Im not saying that I don't believe anyone, I really just want to learn the other side of this argument. Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. The ones leaving arent stupid. i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. @ LT: an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. 11 The Lord told him, Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. Weve got enough local crazy around here, we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. I hope more will speak up in the future. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. It was like my eyes were open. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. I believe that.' Youre not one of us. This was a new song to me. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. James River Church - YouTube since we are all clergy??? some have suffered unjustly. If we were after money we would need to time our exit before Driscoll pulled the roof in again. . He screamed and swore. How to Resign from a Church I think MD needs a season in the wilderness to really think things out. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. stephen is suffering for doing right. we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. Why dont Driscoll and the boyz just get it over with and rename their religion Paulianity? Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. Nancy The worship leaders laugh about it. You make an interesting comparison. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. Gateway also directly lifted the slogan every number has a name, every name has a story.. spiel verbatim from Perry Nobles NewSpring to try to distract from the reality that every member is seen as a giving unit number (no attribution to Perry, of course). Or is it just a GW thing? I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. He appealed that he had no say in the matter. actually, i still think mark has a phenomena called mixture of spirits that derek prince wrote about. There was an uncanny feeling to this experience. I think many. Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. Its more the non-complementarian position to argue that women should be allowed to preach/lead based on gifting and that sounds like the argument Driscoll is raising in the quotes by him I placed in this post. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. Driscoll should not be granted any level of power till he has demonstrated that he has obtained the humility necessary to handle it. So many damaged lives. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. He was defended and protected by his peers and they even tried to help him plant a church here and give it street cred but his family of churches franchise is over for him and he is lucky if 50 people show (mostly SGM followers and family) up for his church in a room at the Marriot not far from where I live. Its all good until (insert question or issue). Pews are in the old megas. In their case, they just use Jesus as marketing tool to sell their own image.It is not like they have not had access to truth. However, some of his employees and family were taken in by SBTS and seem to be doing ok. IMO, the church as a whole can help to regulate these things by exposing them and explaining how they do not reflect Christ at all. thanks for sharing that peter, i agree with the article but havent read any of his other posts. There has not been a frank identification of the flaw in the system that produced the horrific results. . Im honored that Marks here so I dont want anybody reading what Im saying as some kind of disclaimer or apology. . So glad for the folks that started the petition to dis-invite Driscoll, which I signed as well as for those in Australia who protested his abusive, un-Christian behavior toward others, including women. The virus is having a wonderful time right now spreading through this country, taking advantage of circumstances where people have let their guard go down. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. Association of Related Churches But Christians are under the New Covenant and the NT calls Christians to expose false teachers, not facilitate their cover ups. they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . i think that Jesus and God are Awesome, the only crisis i have been having is in my view of the world and the church. Missouri church service Saturday evening. Dont give into his deception. I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. It is all choreographed and it works! (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. The reason why I answered like that is because most of this stuff goes on because the pew sitters are not actively involved in the church operatons and are not demanding openess and transparancy of staff and leaders. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. Meanwhile, Mark Driscoll was preparing to deliver his sermon at James River Church, an Assemblies of God megachurch located in the "Show Me State" (Missouri). I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. 99,693 were here. Sovereign Grace Ministries I know people who were previously baptized that jumped in to get the swag. People shift roles all the time (Mark has obviously been a persecutor a lot!). They knew exactly what they were buying. perhaps, assuming cunning strategy on the part of MD and Mark Demoss: *this sector of christainworld is the path of least resistance (especially since from others comments the YRR/reformed world has disowned him). The Washington Post published the following headline last Sunday: Controversial preacher Mark Driscoll stripped from megachurch Hillsong conference lineup link. he was in glory then entered into human. Galatians 5:22-23. when mercy ministries was investigated at hillsong amazingly the leader Nancy Acorn opened up shop in the u.s. and has many supporters among the christian circuit When Robert brags about lunching with Greg Abbott, golfing with George W Bush or being Rick Santorums spiritual advisor, it makes me feel ill. One of six. there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. Whenever I hear Mark Driscolls name, a passage keeps popping in my mind Beware of Alexander the coppersmith he has done us much harm. Driscoll and his potty-mouth preaching made an everlasting mark on 21st century church in America. He has lots of pics holding impoverished babies while his own 5 kids barely saw him. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? You cant speak in tongues? Then he could claim more fictional persecution. I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? Could Driscoll really appeal to people now using his Macho Man shtick? It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. Just show-biz. At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. Pokin Around: 'Cussing pastor' to preach at James River Church He has not shown himself capable of being trusted with that sort of ministry in the first place. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. Are you not voting? And every Wednesay at 7pm! I need to talk to the president, he may be unaware what some of his professors are teaching. until he says otherwise what else can a person think? Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. I would lay 50 to 1 odds that a change in MD will be announced and proved to be a change in words not a change in behavior! Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? GW used to require people to take a class and understand the commitment but they couldnt keep their salvation numbers up without the spontaneous element that include giving away free clothes and smart little swag bags for those willing to dunk for the cameras. No it wasnt, thanks for the insights. If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. Why I did not run I do not know except I had a contract. in prison. Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). Who cares about that pesky truth so long as there are clean bathrooms, great hot coffee and rockin worship? i think they ended up closing them or not being involved in them anymore, there is an american branch of them now though. Connection ends, shunning begins and the cycle begins all over again with the next batch of newbies. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). I also dont think he should work or earn profit in any manner making money off Jesus (such as selling Christian books, pod casts, site subscriptions, accepting speaking fees to appear at churches, etc). then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. . I dont believe the above because I am wondering how many more similar stories no matter how benign, there are. I view it as wisdom. Youre not trying hard enough! Thanks for sharing your perspectives Abi Mia and Nancy, I appreciate that. And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. Bummer. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. I am a current attender who was raised by people who love this church but I definitely have my confusions on a few things. But here is the underlying issue: we in evangelical Christianity have become so good at eisogeting the scriptures (reading ourselves into the story) it has gotten to the point of narcissism, or as one preacher puts it, narcigesis., Dont believe me? I never thought of that but that certainly might be the case. James River Kids - YouTube . Its just that it isnt what a NT pastor of a group of Christians should be doing. Maybe Driscoll can do commercials like John McEnroe, i am against that sort of ministry, that sort of authority over people, that sort of famousness, that sort of using the gospel of Jesus to make money and become well known in christan circles, that sort of using Jesus name for any personal gain, that sort of i have special insight from God and heres how much you have to pay for it in my new book, that sort of quit saying i have to be asking to be forgiven if i hurt people that sort of we are all brethren but i am alpha brethren i dont hold unforgiveness toward mark driscoll but i am not for anyone anywhere doing that sort of ministry. Above all he had that coveted edginess he wore age and occupation inappropriate t shirts and chunky jewelry on the pulpit. @ sam: I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. Newer ones have theater seating or individual chairs. since we are all clergy??? Im not invested in liking or disliking Che so I truly welcome your comments. Marks of a bully, and definitely not qualifications of an elder. There is a very strong argument for both priests and politicians to have both life and work experience before they enter the fray, however this is the age of the career priest and pollie. Thanks for that recommendation. Now I am working on something for Monday. At that time, although I led Agathos, I was not taking a salary from Agathos. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. But it would be encouraging if they did. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. Any of all of that may be true. The guests are members and attendees (because many regulars never joined). I am still finding it hard to believe that Mr. Houston doesnt have access to Google, or some other search engine, in Australia. Yet its everywhere in the US and Australia. Is to be- Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. "Our desire for things God has forbidden is a reflection of how sin has distorted us, rather than a reflection of how Christ has made us.".
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